CBS "Face the Nation with Bob Schieffer" - Transcript - Arizona Wildfires, Foreign Policy in Egypt, and Immigration Reform

Interview

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MAJOR GARRETT: Excellent. Clarissa Ward in Cairo, thank you very, very much.

And joining us now from his home state of Arizona, Republican Senator John McCain. And Senator, as you know, Arizona-- all of Arizona has the condolences and the sympathies-- sympathies of this nation after the tragic loss of nineteen firefighters. I know you'd like to talk about that. We have got a ton of news to get to, but how is your state coping?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN (Armed Services Committee/R-Arizona): I think they're coping, but I want to thank the American people for their thoughts and their prayers. And-- and their support for the families of these brave nineteen and I thank you for giving me the chance to say thank you on behalf of the people I represent. Major, thank you.

MAJOR GARRETT: Before I let you go on that, Senator, there are issues arising from sequestration across-the-board spending cuts that impact firefighting ability, not just in Arizona, but across the country. Your thoughts on that and are you going to do anything in Washington to turn it around?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: We need to turn it around obviously. It will impair our ability to combat these forest fires. By the way, a quarter of-- of Arizona's forests have been destroyed in the last ten years by forest fires and sequestration in the view of every firefighter I've talked to has said it would impair their ability to combat these devastating occurrences and so it has to be turned around.

MAJOR GARRETT: Let's talk about Egypt, Senator.

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Sure.

MAJOR GARRETT: Bluntly, simply, was that a coup that we saw last week?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: It was a coup and it was the second time in two and a half years that we have seen the military step in. It's a strong indicator of the lack of American leadership and influence since we urged the military not to do that and reluctantly I believe that we have to suspend aid until such time as there is a new constitution and a free and fair election. We can't-- Morsi was a terrible president. Their economy is-- is in terrible shape, thanks to their policies, but the fact is the United States should not be supporting this coup and it's a tough call.

MAJOR GARRETT: Let me ask you specifically about this aid question, Senator. It's already gone out for this fiscal year. Are you talking about trying to pull that back or are you talking about when the new fiscal year starts if nothing has happened on free and fair elections not providing any in the future?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I don't think you can pull it back. It's already in the pipeline. But I hope that the pressure that it brings on the Egyptian military will make for a very rapid transition, we must make this transition. But the place is descending into chaos but so is the entire Middle East because of the total vacuum and lack of American leadership whether it be the massacres in Syria-- Lebanon is-- is beset by sectarian violence, Jordan is about to collapse under the weight of refugees, Iraq is unraveling, Afghanistan, we're having grave problems organizing a follow on force in Afghanistan. America has not led and America is not leading and when America doesn't lead, bad things happen and other people do lead and Egypt is just one segment of a failure of American leadership over the last five years and we need to start being leaders rather than-- than-- than bystanders.

MAJOR GARRETT: Two more quick questions on Egypt. Do you believe Egypt and the world will ever see President Morsi back in office and should it? Secondarily, you've criticized what the administration hasn't done. What should it be doing in your opinion?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: We should be standing-- first of all we should be helping the-- the resistance in Syria to stop the massacre that's going on thanks to Russia, Hezbollah, Iran. We should make it clear to Iran that their progress towards a nuclear weapon has got to be stopped. We're going to have to help Jordan and Lebanon in this problem. Iraq is unraveling. I don't know what you do about Iraq. We've already lost peace there but we have to exercise leadership. And in Egypt, we have to make it very clear that American assistance will be directly related to their transition to a civilian government and we don't claim it's going to be easy but for us to continue to support coups is a-- is a lesson of history that we should have learned a long time ago.

MAJOR GARRETT: Are you alleging that the Obama administration is tacitly approving a coup?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I think it would be a mistake and frankly it would be a contradiction.

MAJOR GARRETT: Do you think that's what's happened?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I think they're in a dilemma. I think they're-- they're-- as usual on these issues, they're undecided and going forward with a debate while events transpire. There's no-- there's no better example of that than Syria as we continue to watch Hezbollah, thousands of fighters, we see Russian weapons pouring in and slaughter of now over a hundred thousand people and we're going to send them light weapons? Light weapons don't do well against tanks.

MAJOR GARRETT: Let's shift our attention, if you will, Senator, to immigration. On the Senate Republican side, you had fourteen votes for the Bipartisan Bill but everyone in your elected Republican leadership voted no. What does that say about the Republican leadership's attitude on this issue and how much do you think those four votes from the top leaders will affect the House Republican reception to this bill?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: Well, I was disappointed, obviously, that our leadership didn't vote the other way but I'm-- I'm glad that there are many, many people and factions and interest groups going to be weighing in beginning with President George W. Bush, our-- our evangelicals, the Catholic Church, labor, business which is important, obviously, to the Republican Party. All are going to be weighing in. I respect Speaker Boehner. I respect the process that he will go through. We are not trying to dictate what the House of Representatives is-- should do and I believe that if they can come up with a bill, we would be more than eager to negotiate with them. A failure to act is de facto amnesty for eleven million people living in the shadows. I think wherever you are on that issue, there's agreement on that. So then shouldn't we sit down together and solve this-- this issue? Not only for the good of the Republican Party, but for the good of the nation.

MAJOR GARRETT: Do you think the Republican Party can compete nationally and at senatorial levels if it drops the ball on this issue this year?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I do not think that that's the case. But more importantly, to live with a situation such as we have and by the-- is not something that what America should be all about and it's a tough road to-- to a legal citizen status. It's a very tough road to green card and then citizenship. It's not easy and it shouldn't be easy. But we have shown them a path forward and we hope and pray that our Republican colleagues will take up the issue and we can join together, Republicans and Democrats.

MAJOR GARRETT: Senator, I know you're averse as most politicians are to placing percentages on outcomes. But would you say right now this is a fifty-fifty proposition? Better than fifty-fifty or worse as you look at the House Republican majority dealing with this issue?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I'm an eternal optimist. I have confidence in Speaker Boehner's leadership. Paul Ryan, our vice presidential candidate, has been very supportive and-- and many others have. And-- and one thing that-- again, we don't want to do and that's have the people and our Republicans particularly in the House think we are dictating to them. We aren't. We just want them to sit down with us and-- and work together and Republicans and Democrats alike and I'm proud of what the Gang of Eight did and I'm proud of the leadership that my colleagues on the Democrat side have shown on this issue and the Gang of Eight and my Republican colleagues.

MAJOR GARRETT: Before I let you go, Senator, Edward Snowden has received asylum assurances from now three nations. If he attempts to leave Russia to go to into those three, should the United States intervene militarily to stop him, divert him or somehow capture him?

SENATOR JOHN MCCAIN: I don't think we can, Major. There're certain norms of international law but the lesson here is-- is look at this-- our relationship with Putin. That reset button, we ought to throw that away. It's clear what he is. He's an old aparachick KGB Colonel and he's not interested in better relations with the United States. If he was, he would make sure that Mister Snowden was sent back to us. We've got to have a much more realistic approach to Russia and Putin in order to comport with the realities of their relations with us.

MAJOR GARRETT: Senator McCain, thank you very much for your time this morning on FACE THE NATION. And we'll be back in just one moment.

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